Thursday, October 28, 2010

Should We Change the Size of Nats and Mixed Nats?

Following Mixed Nats 2010 (continuing a string of highly appreciated events over the last several years), AFDA has hit the ground running in inviting State and National administrative types their views on some of the key issues surrounding Nationals and Mixed Nationals.

We here in the stately Brisbane Ultimate Blog mansion of course (as you readers have no doubt come to expect) have some views, so we'll try to discuss over the next few weeks, starting with the size of Nats and Mixed Nats.

One of the things that regularly comes up is the size of Nationals and Mixed Nats. Since about 2005, the Open and Women's divisions at Nationals have been generally capped at 16 teams, and Mixed Nats at 24 teams. (There have been a few variations - Nationals 2006 allowed two WUCC-bound Masters Clubs expand the Open division to 18, and Mixed Nats this year grew to 28 because of the number of NSW teams wanting to go and the availability of field space. The Women's division also periodically doesn't fill its division.)

The reasoning for capping is generally two-fold. One is it builds the quality of play. As Ultimate grows, keeping the numbers at Nationals the same should see the quality of play continually improve because its frankly harder for chumpy players to get there (see Open Nats in 2003 and 2004). Without a cap, the event becomes a bit of a free-for-all, with a very wide range of talent involved, including near-beginner people who didn't know the rules etc etc (shocking eh?)

The second reason is to smooth out and support volunteers hosting the event. A routine size helps establish basic standards (eg you must have at least 9 fields to host Nats) and knowledge (eg you need to order this many discs). Volunteers (both hosts and AFDA) are always desperate for feedback (ie acknowledgement of their work) and Nationals players generally provide their feedback in terms of comparisons to other years, and negative feedback can be devastating, so there's a driver to try to do at least "the same as last year".

Keeping the cap steady is also powerful for establishing continuity from year to year (9th out of 16 is a definite improvement on 10th out of 16 the previous year, as opposed to being 9th out 12 one year and 10th out of 27 the following.) Having a clear and entrenched structure also helps people plan from year to year - they get to know the qualification system, the draw structure and so forth. This saves a lot of angst - people have appreciated the certainty in size we've had over the last six years. Good policy is by definition something you don't change often, after all.

Still, the other perspective is that its unfortunate that people who really want to go miss out on going to Nationals/Mixed Nats. If the sport is growing, why aren't our major events, after all? Ultimate is about including everyone we can and so forth.

And capping also discourages elite players from going 'long term' and getting involved in weaker teams and risking missing out, meaning that our major events don't contribute to growing the sport outside the event (not that they have to, but it seems most people want us to do everything we can to grow the sport in the ongoing search for greater legitimacy).

Consistent apping also means that there is very little turnover in the players attending Nationals from year to year. If someone wants to crunch the numbers, that would be very interesting, but annecdotally you'd have to assume that somewhere upwards of 75% (quite possibly in the 85-90% range) of the people who attended Nationals 2010 would've attended Nationals 2009 and probably Nationals 2008 as well. We all know that going to Nationals is a great way to grow a journeyman player (and group of players) to the next level, and that this delivers on all fronts when that person gets back home. But equally, these group of people have a vested interest in the present system which shouldn't be ignored when thinking about this.

So the view for change here in the stately mansion is twofold.

A simple approach would be that AFDA could continue with the current caps as minimums, BUT if a host can provide a suitable venue and AFDA is confident they can do it, then AFDA should be willing to enlarge divisions. This needs to be done at the bidding stage. In weighing up bids, if there are differences between them as to the number of teams hosts can welcome, then this should be a factor in deciding. And when the successful host is announced, people need to be told then the number of teams that will be invited (ie several months out and well before players start preparing).

But here's something more daring. In future, AFDA could *require bidders* to describe how they would *concurrently* run Bashionals with Nationals.

Same host (or two hosts in partnership), same weekend (maybe only 2 or 3 days rather than 4), same admin including promotion, same social events (huge muthaflarking parties!), but using a separate venue within the same city - because deep down, its field availability that determines size, but players want to feel like they are part of something BUG. Bashionals becomes clearly Nationals Division 2. If it was keen enough, AFDA could even make Bashionals 'real' by shrinking Division 1 from 16 down to 12 teams (or 24 down to 16) for a few years to establish its numbers as well as making a clearly quality statement about both Div 1 and 2. And the winners of Div 2 could even an automatic Wildcard to Div 1 the following year or something.

Your thoughts welcome in the comments section below, but you can also email AFDA and State/Territory admin types with your constructive views - they love to hear about it.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

So you'll be running Bashionals at JFOG the same weekend at Nationals 2011, JDR?

Huddy said...

Hi JDR,
I strongly support the capping of numbers for nationals.
As a reasonably experienced, but not outstanding player from a region that is difficult to get nationals teams together or pick up on other teams, I stand to gain from there being more slots. However, I firmly believe that the way forward for ultimate is with maintaining a certain standard at high-level competitions.

The current qualification process gives every team who wants to go to nationals the opportunity to plan for it, like Heroes is planning for coming years now, and develop their own players to compete at the national level.

Nationals should be considered the elite level of competition, and treated as such. If you ask people why they go to nationals, you're likely to have more respect for someone who responds with "I was good enough to qualify with a good team" than someone who says "oh, because I wanted to."

I like Bashionals as an alternative for teams keen to taste competition or want to play, but not compete so intensely.

So, basically, I would like to see nationals numbers remaining capped at 16, and a second division provided for other teams.

Huddy

James said...

yeh what Huddy said.

Pete said...

A positive thing from running a 1st and 2nd division of nationals in the same state on the same weekend is that players could book their transport/accomodation etc... prior to regionals knowing they would be going either way.

Anonymous said...

What about drawing on AUG's experience of two divisions?

Admittedly, its a five day tournament so there's more room to argue. Also, AUGs doesn't have a qualification in the same way Nats and Mixed Nats do, which also leads to argument.

But people seem to have generally enjoyed having two divisions?

But an Open Nationals of say 12 teams with a Div 2 across town of another 8 to 12 or so teams is very amusing to contemplate. Absolutely no chumpy teams in Div 1, and genuinely commited teams looking for redemption by winning Div 2.

Anonymous said...

Plus getting Mixed Nats down to a Div 1 of 16 teams would be good (with a Div 2 for another 8-16 teams). Qualifier events (outside of NSW) would suddenly become a lot more meaningful! Many people view Day 1 of Mixed Nats as a waste of time as its about culling the chumps.

dstrel said...

So Gref posts anonymously.. no surprises.

gref said...

Wtf Dan?

I don't post anonymously, and I don't know which post I'm supposed to have made, or why I would even care enough to post...

I didn't go to Mixed Nats, or have really any opinion about divisions.

Alex said...

Both of the above anonymous posts seem to be by the same person.

And I think it was the frequent use of the word 'chump'.

Reece said...

do you care or have an opinion on anything gref?

Anonymous said...

I hate anonymous posters!

gref said...

Opinions are for chumps. :)

dstrel said...

ahh my detective work has failed
my second guess is tomsteve

it was the chump talk :P combined with uni games..

Jules said...

Ya mum's a chump!

dstrel said...

hey bitches, just to clear this up, the first comment by tipster "Dan" is certainly not me!