So I picked up and clarified for myself at least, a few things about lines and cones and ins and outs, in looking at the rules today, in response to a discussion over at Ulti-talk, and figured I'd share my rules-nerdery.
Which Cones Do You Use to Determine if You're In or Out?
If you're playing on an unlined field, and you have to decide if you are in or out, you need to establish the line between the two cones that form the end points of line in question.
So typically, if you're near the sideline in the middle of the field and you want to confirm if you're in or out, you need someone to chug off down to an endzone, and look down the line between the cone at the front of one endzone, and the cone at the front of the endzone at the other end.
What's the Story With People 'Kicking' Cones Off the Line
It used to bother me that on a lined field, if a player was bringing in a disc that had gone out over an endzone sideline, they'd kick the cone out of the way so as to establish their pivot foot.
To me, it'd be good spirit if you do move a cone, to put it back before running off. At the least, if you're on the sideline, you'll do this for a team-mate or opponent.
But checking the rules today, when you bring a disc back into play from out-of-bounds, your pivot foot should actually be inside the line, rather than on it (as the line itself is out-of-bounds).
So, assuming a cone is where we usually place it - on the line - there's no need to move it.
So you'll be able to call violation (admittedly, an undefined violation) on anyone who moves a cone for a pivot foot. Explain the rule to them and ask them to put the cone back before commencing play. [Update You could also try calling travel and most would accept that kind of a call and explanation, although the rules aren't 100% clear on that one, imho.]
Half Way Cones
Remember too that 'half way cones' don't count. I don't know why people put them out.
6 comments:
Hey JdR.
I also get annoyed at people kicking the cone out of the way.
However, I thought is was a pivot "point" not a pivot "foot". I assume that to be near the ball of the foot for myself and players I referee. In that case the cone still gets in the way. You're right about the pivot having to be inside the line though.
In practice to avoid the issue I normally say to the person "come away from the cone" when they approach they are about to put the disc in play. They are usually happy to take the extra 20cm I give them :)
Thoughts?
Goldy
I agree with Goldy, its alright to put your foot next to the cone, its not going to throw the game one way or the other as long as everyone does the same thing!
I'm sure a travel call would be acceptable if people try and 'steal' a few extra steps but I can't see anyone doing that on purpose.
Middle cones are a must. Trying to spot the line from one endzone to the other is near impossible and it helps to establish a brick mark.
I wouldn't dare argue with Tomsteve, BUDA president. The only argument I could see for moving a corner cone is that when you pivot out of bounds (but keep pivot foot stationary) then this foot is possibly going to get hit, therefore being in the way.
Weak argument I know, but everyone is just ganging up on the cones that like being moved.
I disagree with calling a violation on someone moving a cone ...
If their foot is not out or on the line there is not violation.
Just because your pivot foot needs to be inside the field of play, doesn't mean that your non pivot foot can be out of the field. It really isn't uncommon to have the leg of your pivot foot much lower than the height of a standard cone, and hitting it as I pivot to break a mark shouldn't ever have to be a problem ... Just move the cone, then put it back.
Example 1Example 2Example 3
Post a Comment